tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post1746988326823999108..comments2024-02-26T18:18:55.644+02:00Comments on Esser Agaroth (2ยข): It's Broken Record Time: Western Values and Sensibilities do not Equal Jewish Values and SensibilitiesEsser Agarothhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-26279971697063262242014-03-25T23:28:58.227+02:002014-03-25T23:28:58.227+02:00OK.
I can see this as a reasonable perspective.
...OK.<br /><br />I can see this as a reasonable perspective.<br /><br />I think that you and I might use a few words which are different, and are viewing the issue in not exactly the same way.<br /><br />But, yeah, "framework is garbage" really sums it up well.Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-25673535004051422332014-03-25T23:24:34.743+02:002014-03-25T23:24:34.743+02:00However, that women are inferior to men, I believe...<i>However, that women are inferior to men, I believe, can only be concluded by using the very Western standards I am arguing against</i><br /><br />Fair enough, but when people argue that Judaism discriminates against women or gives them an inferior status, they are basing that argument on a western point of reference. And from a western point of view, they are absolutely correct. It is much more productive to just concede their point and say that it doesn't matter because their entire framework is garbage than to shout that Judaism actually is egalitarian in it's own way.<br /><br />Also, I would argue that even holding "equality" as a value is itself western and alien to Judaism. I don't see equality as an inherent Jewish value at all. Billyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195012284369813406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-51436572638664855802014-03-25T22:38:53.663+02:002014-03-25T22:38:53.663+02:00Hmmm... Maybe.
I certainly agree that we need to ...Hmmm... Maybe.<br /><br />I certainly agree that we need to embrace that "It is what it is" (ie. not egalitarian, and not apologizing).<br /><br />However, that women are inferior to men, I believe, can only be concluded by using the very Western standards I am arguing against.<br /><br />The Torah sees women and men as different, and with different roles.<br /><br />I mention a true story of a rabbi who explains to a woman how she can put on tefillin in <a href="http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2011/10/rashis-daughters.html" rel="nofollow">Rashi's Daughters</a>. I don't think it's apologetic, but rather a strategic way of dealing with the low spiritual state that we seem to be in at this time.Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-3012215592619843852014-03-25T20:19:01.934+02:002014-03-25T20:19:01.934+02:00Those who have a more conservative (for lack of a ...Those who have a more conservative (for lack of a better term) always put themselves on the defensive by adopting the western framework. Even when a haredi is debating a chiloni about halacha they will say something like, "oh no, Judaism does not regard women as inferior...".<br /><br />Uh, yes it does. Certainly a male soul and female soul have equal worth but on this world, halacha clearly grants men a superior status. Now maybe it will be different in the world to come (although I hope not) but for now there are certain rights and priviledges that halacha gives men that it does not afford to women.<br /><br />What we need to do is proudly embrace that our faith is not egalitarian instead of apologizing for what we are and trying to pretend that halacha is actually Mary Wollstonecraft.Billyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195012284369813406noreply@blogger.com