tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post3979901148177686955..comments2024-02-26T18:18:55.644+02:00Comments on Esser Agaroth (2ยข): The Real Issue Behind The Emmanuel School ProtestsEsser Agarothhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-54035014657860069302010-06-24T08:41:38.774+03:002010-06-24T08:41:38.774+03:00Best take I've seen on this anywhere. Thank y...Best take I've seen on this anywhere. Thank you.Devorah Chayahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03625277197970920616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-42896433685470391672010-06-21T13:17:19.231+03:002010-06-21T13:17:19.231+03:00MII, Thanks for writing.
I believe that you are c...MII, Thanks for writing.<br /><br />I believe that you are correct on several counts:<br /><br />1. <i>Just because the court doesn't consider G-d's opinion, doesn't mean that its decision is wrong or that G-d opposes it.</i><br /><br />Agreed. However, the fact that they are right from time to time (and not just religious Justice Levy, but Beinish and Arbel), does not make this system correct, ideal, or kasher.<br /><br />That being said, Rav Tzuriel from your neck of the woods has suggested the acceptability of going to the secular courts to adjudicate some issues. I'll tell you why in private, if you would like to know.<br /><br />2. <i>Shouting that G-d is on your side doesn't make you the moral arbiter for all of society. </i><br /><br />Definitely. However, that is because most groups of Jews let hashqafah get in the way of understanding halacha. As the Mishnah states [upon Ge'ulah] the truth is spread out, and we must go out and search for it. There is truth is all segments of Jewish communities, including Satmar and in a Tel-Aviv coffeehouse open on Shabbath. Most of us, myself included sometimes, are too stubborn to see and/or accept this.<br /><br />Thus, God is not on my side or your side, not on the Slonimers' side or the Sefardim's side, but on all our sides.<br /><br />I am not familiar with the Ponivitch case, but see above regarding Rav Tzuriel.<br /><br />When we teachers were not getting paid, and won twice in Beth Din, we had no choice but to go to the secular courts to bring suit, so that Betuah Leumi would pay out our salaries.<br /><br />My understanding is that Batei Din don't have much power over issues besides giyur and divorce, and that doesn't necessarily include that monetary aspects, in this country, unless two parties go to one like an arbiter.<br /><br />I still believe that whether Justice Levy happened to be right and the Slonimer Rebbe happened to be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time that Rabbeim weren't getting the full unbiased story. Just look at Rav Eliashiv and the advantage people take of him.), Justice Levy's reasoning was incorrect, and the Slonimer Rebbe's statements regarding the Torah vs. State were correct.<br /><br />I hope this clarified things.Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-64063288957159853962010-06-21T12:27:37.733+03:002010-06-21T12:27:37.733+03:00The Jerusalem Bet Din, that Slonim went to about t...The Jerusalem Bet Din, that Slonim went to about the issue, agreed with the "erev rav" and ruled that the children should all learn together.<br />Just because the court doesn't consider G-d's opinion, doesn't mean that its decision is wrong or that G-d opposes it. Shouting that G-d is on your side doesn't make you the moral arbiter for all of society. <br />Batya, they didn't choose a different school. They started a new one, using the government's facilities. The parents weren't jailed for sending there, but for contempt of court.<br />EA, what do you have to say about the Poneviz case that is now in the secular court?mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-75806230022001472652010-06-20T23:21:36.425+03:002010-06-20T23:21:36.425+03:00You are absolutely right.
The Erev Rav Courts gav...You are absolutely right.<br /><br />The Erev Rav Courts gave the order, no?<br /><br />No stirah between my post and your comment.<br /><br />Boy, do I look forward to getting Internet at home again!<br /><br />I miss blogging.Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-36556284303403953112010-06-20T23:12:45.260+03:002010-06-20T23:12:45.260+03:00You are absolutely right.
The Erev Rav Courts gav...You are absolutely right.<br /><br />The Erev Rav Courts gave the order, no?Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32118121.post-2430894346844209752010-06-20T21:44:34.814+03:002010-06-20T21:44:34.814+03:00Interesting take on it.
But for the court to jail ...Interesting take on it.<br />But for the court to jail parents for choosing a different school, that's against all precedent.Batyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.com