Tuesday, October 06, 2009

B'nei No'ah?

3 d'Hol HaMo'ed Sukkoth 5770

Tomer Devorah pointed me to this story and video.
Four New Noahides Welcomed into the Fold in Jerusalem
17 Tishrei 5770/October 5, 2009 10:31 PM

(IsraelNN.com) The nascent Sanhedrin’s court for Noahides - Torah-believing non-Jews - held a ceremony this week in which four Gentiles declared their acceptance of the Seven Laws of Noah....

I have a number of questions I would like to have answered.

First of all, here is one for Israel National News: Into what "fold" are you referring?

And now, for the "Sanhedrin" and recent "inductees:"
*Video time markers are in (blue italics).
Did anyone explicitly tell them that Christianity is a forbidden belief and practice? (Mishnah Torah, Hil. Avodah Zarah 9:4)

What does this guy mean when he says he's a "believer?" A believer in what? (0:47, See Tomer Devorah's take on this.)

He also said he was declared a "righteous gentile." Who said they were righteous? Simply because they are doing what they are supposed to be doing, and most gentiles are not? (1:08)

He also said that all Christians should do this. (1:12) Do what? Get declared as a Ben No'ah? As a Christian? The two things are NOT compatible.

They were not declared Ger Toshav.

Did anyone tell them they are not allowed to live here?

Who says the laws aren't good anymore? (2:01)

Ben No'ah is a denomination now? Denomination of what? (2:18, 3:31)

The Torah is for everyone? (3:26) Certainly NOT the Oral Torah.

Perhaps you think I am being mean? Well, any true Ben No'ah will not mind the scrutiny, and even welcome it.


Devorah Chayah said...

Thanks for publicizing it and thanks for caring.

Unknown said...

Billy Jack Dial Part 1.
From my learning, that the Seven laws only apply to gentiles living within Israel under the jurisdiction of “FULL” Sanhedrin, and at which time the Temple is rebuilt. So what about my gentile soul whom rejected the Covenants of Adam, of Noah, of Abraham, and at Sinia? It’s no one’s fault but my own gentile soul (Nefesh Hiya) which came to me in a state of impurity and devoid of a Neshmat Chayah from my forefather’s bad decisions and which they are to blame and not me. And I accept that. Bottom line is that my gentile soul is distained to expire. I know that my My Nefesh Hiya expires upon the death of my body, and that the seven laws will not give me a higher soul Neshmat Chayah which is a prerequisite to extend into the World to Come. I accept me for whom I am and I move on from there. However know this; there are other options for the goy to be reinstated with the Neshmat Chayah without full conversion to Judaism.

Esser Agaroth said...

BJD, Your first comment is in incorrect. Non-Jews are obligated to follow the 7 Noahide Laws at all times. Whether we're ableto reiforce this or not is another story.

A Ger Toshav is a Ben No'ah who has permission from the Beth Din to reside here.

Your stuff about your "soul" makes no sense, and you have no sources mentioned to back up what you're saying anyway.

We hold by sources, not feelings.

I refer readers to the post by Tomer Devorah I cite above, and to its comments section.

Moshe said...

Ben Yehuda, please stop being arrogant. It's not derech eretz to summerly declare a teaching as pulsul without first inquiring what Mr. Dial's sources are; to pretend that you know it all and therefore reject, Mr. Dial without even asking him how he learns only reveals a person who has a bloated self esteem. Please stop. Better yet bring your sources! Its put up or shut up time. Poochie now roll over and bark.

Moshe said...

Ben Yehuda,
the gemarah of avodah zarah explicitly teaches that the goyim abandoned their oath/brit relationship with heaven. if you want to pulsul mr. Dial's opening statement then you must now bring a source of your own.

Esser Agaroth said...


1. Derekh Eretz means to have job.

2. Mishnah Torah Hil. Avodah Zarah and Hil. Melakhim u'Milhamothehem.

3. Pulsul? You pasul? Who pasuled anything? No, I don't have to bring a source, not until the originator does. Kol she'khen I am not required to bring any sources from Torah sheb'al peh unrelated to this particular issue. Regarding "souls," that's qabbalistic and also off limits. Dial's rabbis supposedly taught him all he needs from Torah sheb'al peh. I will let them take it from here.

4. Your name calling is silly. I went back and forth as to whether to post it or not as they embarrass you more than they embarrass me.

5. Thank you for reading 10 Ag.

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